When Will Israel be Divided?

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When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby extravagantchristian on Sat May 13, 2017 11:29 am

I'm assuming that Israel will be divided sometime during the 70th week, based on these verses:

Zechariah 1:21 And I said, “What are these coming to do?” So he said, “These are the horns that scattered Judah, so that no one could lift up his head; but the craftsmen are coming to terrify them, to cast out the horns of the nations that lifted up their horn against the land of Judah to scatter it.”

11 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.


But my question is, will Israel be divided at the beginning of the 70th week? Or at the mid point? I guess I'm wondering how the division of the land fits into the puzzle of events.

What will happen first?

War in Syria
Jerusalem surrounded by Armies
AntiChrist makes peace and rebuilds temple, starting sacrifices, giving outter court to gentiles
Antichrist stops sacrifices
Divides the land, gentiles trample underfoot
Stands in Temple, as God
Persecutes Jews and Christians

Am I right to assume that the destruction of Damascus will be the beginning of the end? The trigger to the tribulation. The opportunity for the AC to startup temple and sacrifices.

I've always assumed that the 7 year covenant in Daniel would be a 2 state solution, but why would the peace deal only be for 7 years? Why would they want to make a temporary deal? Isn't it supposed to be the "final solution"
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby Douggg on Sat May 13, 2017 12:05 pm

extravagantchristian wrote:I'm assuming that Israel will be divided sometime during the 70th week, based on these verses:

Zechariah 1:21 And I said, “What are these coming to do?” So he said, “These are the horns that scattered Judah, so that no one could lift up his head; but the craftsmen are coming to terrify them, to cast out the horns of the nations that lifted up their horn against the land of Judah to scatter it.”

11 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.


But my question is, will Israel be divided at the beginning of the 70th week? Or at the mid point? I guess I'm wondering how the division of the land fits into the puzzle of events.

What will happen first?

War in Syria
Jerusalem surrounded by Armies
AntiChrist makes peace and rebuilds temple, starting sacrifices, giving outter court to gentiles
Antichrist stops sacrifices
Divides the land, gentiles trample underfoot
Stands in Temple, as God
Persecutes Jews and Christians

Am I right to assume that the destruction of Damascus will be the beginning of the end? The trigger to the tribulation. The opportunity for the AC to startup temple and sacrifices.

I've always assumed that the 7 year covenant in Daniel would be a 2 state solution, but why would the peace deal only be for 7 years? Why would they want to make a temporary deal? Isn't it supposed to be the "final solution"
I don't think that it means the city is divided once the 7 years begins. I think it is saying the 7 years are divided.

During the first half of the seven years, the Jews will be worshiping in the temple - i.e. count them that worship within.

Then the Antichrist person commits the transgression of desolation, sitting the temple, claiming to be God, stopping the worshiping inside the temple of the true God, near the middle of the 7 years - with the outer court, the city, for the remaining 42 months will be occupied by his armies.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

The confirmation of the covenant goes back to Moses who was the first to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years - in Deuteronomy 31:9-13. Without that information, it is impossible to understand Daniel 9:27.

Moses in that group of verses also made it a perpetual requirement that the future leadership of Israel see to it likewise, on a 7 year cycle. What it will be, once you read those verses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 for yourself you will understand, is a big speech from the temple mount that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs, forever.

It will not take place until after Gog/Magog and the removal of the muslim presence from the temple mount. The 7 years in Ezekiel 39, following Gog/Magog is the same 7 years in Daniel 9:27.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby Loop on Sat May 13, 2017 12:15 pm

Israel is already divided.. ie. The West Bank and Gaza... :dunno:

Although I'm expecting to see Jerusalem divided as well.. :bag:
Psalms 91
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby Douggg on Sat May 13, 2017 12:34 pm

extravagantchristian wrote: What will happen first?

War in Syria
Jerusalem surrounded by Armies
AntiChrist makes peace and rebuilds temple, starting sacrifices, giving outter court to gentiles
Antichrist stops sacrifices
Divides the land, gentiles trample underfoot
Stands in Temple, as God
Persecutes Jews and Christians

Am I right to assume that the destruction of Damascus will be the beginning of the end? The trigger to the tribulation. The opportunity for the AC to startup temple and sacrifices.


I don't think it is possible to determine when Damascus will be destroyed. One possibility is at the time of Gog/Magog.

The seven years though - those will directly follow Gog/Magog, when the person who becomes the Antichrist (by being anointed the King of Israel) arrives in the middle east with his armies following Gog/Magog. He will not be seen by the Jews as a invader or enemy, but someone who was prepared to defend them against Gog/Magog - leading them to think that he is their messiah.

During the first half of the seven years, most of it, the Jews will be thinking peace and safety of the messianic age, thinking in a post Gog/Magog world, it has come. Many in Christianity will fall away from believing in Jesus, and will buy into the Jews being right all along, with their messiah in place.

Nearing the middle of the 7 years, the person betrays the Jews and the covenant, commits the transgression of desolation, sitting in the temple claiming to be God. The Jews will be mortified and will reject him as continuing as their King of Israel, ending his time as the Antichrist, and don't go along with his worship me or else. That's when the Day of the Lord begins.

God has the person killed for his audacious act, in Ezekiel 28:1-10, and the person finds himself in hell. In Isaiah 14, he isn't allowed to remain there very long, because God in disdain for the person kicks him out of the grave, bringing him back to life, as the strong delusion that God sends to them that were inclined to believe the persons lies to begin with (2Thessalonians2:11). At that point, the bible calls the person the beast of Revelation 13.

The false prophet has an image made of the person and everyone is required to worship the beast and his image. That image is the Abomination of Desolation and that is what triggers the Great Tribulation. The Abomination of Desolation will be setup on day 1185 of the 2520 day 7 years. From Daniel 12:11-12, 2520-1335 days = 1185.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby shorttribber on Sat May 13, 2017 12:34 pm

:grin: :nothingtoadd: :grin:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby Douggg on Sat May 13, 2017 12:38 pm

Loop wrote:Israel is already divided.. ie. The West Bank and Gaza... :dunno:

Although I'm expecting to see Jerusalem divided as well.. :bag:

Everything changes following Gog/Magog. End of Islam.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby Loop on Sat May 13, 2017 5:06 pm

:lol: at shorttribber... :hugs:
Psalms 91
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby 1whowaits on Sat May 13, 2017 9:28 pm

Zech 1 describes 4 horses of varying color somewhat similar to the horsemen of Rev., the first 4 seals. Zech then describes God being angry with Judah and Jerusalem for 70 years but then turning to Jerusalem with mercy and desiring the temple to be rebuilt. As the gentile nations divide Jerusalem, Judah and Israel, God becomes angry with the leaders of the gentile nations and sends the 4 'craftsmen' (the previously described horsemen?)to throw down the leaders and likely the nations themselves.

It has been approximately 70 years since Israel has become a nation again. A major requirement of the 2 state solution made by the gentile nations is the division of Judah (West Bank), Jerusalem (temple mount) and Israel (Gaza and likely connecting territory to the WB). The stage is set, the time is right.

When the division is implemented it appears that God unleashes the 4 horsemen (craftsmen) to terrify and cause major damage to the gentile nations. The 4 horsemen, the first 4 seals, do appear to parallel what Jesus describes and the 'beginning of birth-pangs', events occurring prior to the midpoint, the AOD.

So what event would bring about the division of Judah, Jerusalem and Israel? Would the destruction of Damascus cause a 'peace agreement' to be made in the ME? Could any agreement be made without the implementation of the 2 state solution? Once that solution is being implemented, would Gog-Maog and God's visible rescue of Israel put a stop to such a solution and eliminate resistance by the gentile nations to the rebuilding of the Temple (apparently God's goal in this time-frame)?
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby kirthril on Sun May 14, 2017 5:13 am

I think the question is 2 fold. What does divided mean? Divided by force or divided by circumstance/agreements?
Loop wrote:Israel is already divided.. ie. The West Bank and Gaza... :dunno:

Although I'm expecting to see Jerusalem divided as well.. :bag:

Loop is technically correct. Israel is already divided in 3 parts. So... no more to debate right?

or as Loop also states, is it more so Jerusalem the eternal capital which is to undergo future division?

I don't think the bible ever states specifically when Israel becomes divided although it does offer clues as to when it could.

One clue is that Christ Jesus warned the people in Judea to flee when they see the AOD to flee for the wilderness. He says Judea, but not Samaria. He is warning the people in Southern Israel not Northern Israel. (I believe I made a mistake in another thread where I said Judea is in the north and Samaria in south, I will try to find and correct that). Why differentiate between the two?

So as I mentioned in another thread a 1967 borders agreement would make Israel so thin across its middle that an invading army could split north from south easily within minutes, with a tank blitz. The Antichrist comes from the north, invading through the Golan (the only major roads coming into northern Israel are through the Golan), so the people in the north are essentially cut off and doomed. Jerusalem doesn't fall until just before the time of wrath, and Arabia is just standing on the sidelines as mentioned in Ezekiel. So those in the south at the time of invasion have time to flee and find escape.

So is this the division? The invasion itself? or a possible agreement that makes Israel indefensible by giving up territory? If no 1967 borders agreement happens, it would take a bit longer for the AC to conquer Israel, but the forceful militarized division will happen anyway.

Another clue is in Revelation when God declares his anger at those who have divided his land. So question is, what is God's land? Jerusalem? Israel proper? or the entire Holy Land from Nile to Euphrates? I say all 3, but all are in a state of division. One section of Jerusalem is under Jordanian control (temple mount). Israel is divided into Gaza and West bank. And the Holy Land is divided into 5 nations (Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon).

But none of those divisions has brought down Gods wrath.

So it seems to me that what brings his wrath is the final and forceful division by the AC armies. Like the Roman Centurions who tore Christ's robes and casts lots for possession, the AC and armies will divide Israel and cast lots for possession.
After all Sheba and Dedan (Arabia) protest "have you come to take spoil"....
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby Loop on Sun May 14, 2017 8:27 am

Is not Jerusalem already divided as well.. or Temple mount anyway... Maybe not entirely but... The most important part of Jerusalem which is Temple Mount... And is not the Arab's "Palistinians" not a gentile nation... Seems its already been trampled underfoot... :bag:

Can anyone show proof they are not a gentile nation... :dunno:
Psalms 91
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby shorttribber on Sun May 14, 2017 8:50 am

:snack:
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby 1whowaits on Sun May 14, 2017 11:27 am

All of the West Bank and Jerusalem have been conquered (taken back) by Israel since 1967 (50 year anniversary). Israel chose to cede control of the temple mount and East Jerusalem to the Arab to appease the muslims, but it is still their territory. Israel is not yet divided in the way Zech 1 describes. Israel could take over the temple mount anytime they wish and rebuild the temple but they fear an all out muslim war. God will intervene and the temple will be rebuilt.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby Mr Baldy on Sun May 14, 2017 12:55 pm

Loop wrote:Is not Jerusalem already divided as well.. or Temple mount anyway... Maybe not entirely but... The most important part of Jerusalem which is Temple Mount... And is not the Arab's "Palistinians" not a gentile nation... Seems its already been trampled underfoot... :bag:

Can anyone show proof they are not a gentile nation... :dunno:


Excellent Point!


:snack:
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby 1whowaits on Sun May 14, 2017 4:19 pm

The proof that Israel is not a divided gentile nation is that the gentile nations are still trying to divide Israel up and make designated gentile governed land within Israel via the 2 state solution. Israel still dominates and owns the land, she just makes the place of God's temple of a lower priority, a mistake that will be corrected.

In Rev 11 the gentiles trample the Holy City, Jerusalem, for a limited time, 42 months. This trampling is described in the context of an already rebuilt temple of God with worshipers in it, that includes an outer court, which has not occurred yet.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby Douggg on Sun May 14, 2017 5:10 pm

1whowaits wrote:The proof that Israel is not a divided gentile nation is that the gentile nations are still trying to divide Israel up and make designated gentile governed land within Israel via the 2 state solution. Israel still dominates and owns the land, she just makes the place of God's temple of a lower priority, a mistake that will be corrected.

In Rev 11 the gentiles trample the Holy City, Jerusalem, for a limited time, 42 months. This trampling is described in the context of an already rebuilt temple of God with worshipers in it, that includes an outer court, which has not occurred yet.

exactly.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby Loop on Sun May 14, 2017 5:37 pm

The proof that Israel is not a divided gentile nation


Excuse me?........ I never said Israel was a gentile nation.....

I was referring to the Arabs "Palistinians".... as to being gentile :humm:
Psalms 91
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby 1whowaits on Sun May 14, 2017 8:01 pm

The Arabs are gentiles and they ruled the temple mount until it was taken back in 1967. After taking the mount, Moshe Dayan allowed the Muslims to remain in religious control over the area of the temple mount as the war had just ended and he believed he was preventing a new one, but it is still Israel's territory. Israel has the ultimate authority over the temple mount, which the gentile nations wish to take away.

The trampling by the gentiles on the temple mount in Rev 11 is a reference to a future time when the Temple has been rebuilt.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby kirthril on Fri May 26, 2017 8:49 am

1whowaits wrote:The Arabs are gentiles and they ruled the temple mount until it was taken back in 1967. After taking the mount, Moshe Dayan allowed the Muslims to remain in religious control over the area of the temple mount as the war had just ended and he believed he was preventing a new one, but it is still Israel's territory. Israel has the ultimate authority over the temple mount, which the gentile nations wish to take away.

The trampling by the gentiles on the temple mount in Rev 11 is a reference to a future time when the Temple has been rebuilt.


I thought Jordan has current authority over the temple mount as of right now?
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby 1whowaits on Fri May 26, 2017 7:00 pm

The Temple Mount and East Jerusalem were taken over by Israel in 1967. They then promptly gave control of the temple mount back to the muslim authority because at the time they thought it would start another war if Israel took over the mosque. Israel 'owns' the temple mount but chooses to allow the muslims to exert a certain amount of control on what goes on on the mount. Israel chooses to let someone else control God's mountain, something i think God would not be happy with.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby Looking4acity on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:57 pm

Loop wrote:Israel is already divided.. ie. The West Bank and Gaza... :dunno:

Although I'm expecting to see Jerusalem divided as well.. :bag:


I agree that Israel is already divided and I believe it is still ongoing. But, I have a FAR different view as who did the dividing. I beleive the keys are found in several places namely Rev. 2:9:
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


And Rev. 11:8.
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


And lastly Ezekiel 36:1-11.


1 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:
2 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are in our possession:
3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:
4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;
5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.
6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:
7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.
8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.
9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:
10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:
11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.


I sincerely believe that we have had the wool pulled over our eyes and that this grand deception has been so fantastically orchestrated by Satan. The modern state of Israel is not of God, but a preparation by the satanic cabal of international bankers for their coming prince and New World Order. I'm sorry to be so blunt. It's probably quite shocking and disturbing.
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Re: When Will Israel be Divided?

Postby shorttribber on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:32 pm

Looking4acity wrote:I sincerely believe that we have had the wool pulled over our eyes and that this grand deception has been so fantastically orchestrated by Satan. The modern state of Israel is not of God, but a preparation by the satanic cabal of international bankers for their coming prince and New World Order. I'm sorry to be so blunt. It's probably quite shocking and disturbing.

Well Looking,
It's very clear that you have a part of it right....it's not that it's not of God, oh no, it's of God. God has allowed the "Clever Plans" and "Cunning Schemes" of the Loser and his people to Cause the Lord's Holy and perfect word to be fulfilled.

The Unholy alliances and a "Faithful Remnant" are living side by side........you've probably heard that before though.

The promises to Abraham will be completed for the REAL and Faithful State of Israel, despite the Modern Day "Unholy Zionist Zealots".

I know what you are saying.
The Wisest men have changed their Counsels and Resolves upon second thoughts, much more upon experience, and approaching evils not at first discovered. Rev. Herbert Croft, 1675

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Find seven years of tribulation plainly stated in the Bible.
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