Nephelim and The Watchers are back?

Events indicative of the end-times which may, or may not, be related to a specific Scripture.

Postby ruotsher on Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:00 pm

Who do you suppose is mingling with the seed of men, in Daniel?

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Origen tried to warn the church that fallen angels had infiltrated the church to change and censor the Bible. Their purpose was of course to destroy any evidence of the sin of the fallen angels of leaving their proper habitation and coming down to take wives of the sons of men.

Origen was silenced and so was any document that informed believers of the sin of the angels. That main document was the Book of Enoch. During the Council of Nicea all texts that referred to the Book of Enoch or quoted from it were subject to automatic censor. Even the books of Jude, and 1st and 2nd Peter came into question because they quoted from the Book of Enoch.

The book of Jubilees and Jasher also talk of the Watchers...and their fall.
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:50 pm

:sheep:

The watchers, are also mentioned in the Book of Daniel. It seems that when the church became the Roman Catholic Church, which seems to be the same time they got rid of the book of Enoch, almost Jude and Peter, and wanted to not include Revelation, some things truly changed.

I pray that God lead us back to the truth that the early church knew. Because without this, help in truly understanding the spiritual battle we are in, which I really do not think most believers understand at all, we are left without our armour. Paul explains this to us in Ephesians who we wrestle with, and it is not flesh and blood.

:armor:
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Postby ruotsher on Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:06 pm

RomaLynnStar wrote::sheep:

The watchers, are also mentioned in the Book of Daniel. It seems that when the church became the Roman Catholic Church, which seems to be the same time they got rid of the book of Enoch, almost Jude and Peter, and wanted to not include Revelation, some things truly changed.

I pray that God lead us back to the truth that the early church knew. Because without this, help in truly understanding the spiritual battle we are in, which I really do not think most believers understand at all, we are left without our armour. Paul explains this to us in Ephesians who we wrestle with, and it is not flesh and blood.

:armor:


:a3:
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Postby Sword of Geddon on Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:33 pm

Seems that satan has been partly seccessful at attempting to hide God's truth from us. I wonder what was in the rest of the book of enoch that is no longer with us?
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Postby DALLAS on Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:47 pm

There was also a book of The Wars of the Lord that was quoted in the old testament. Wouldn't this come in handy?
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Postby Lookfortruth on Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:07 pm

DALLAS wrote:There was also a book of The Wars of the Lord that was quoted in the old testament. Wouldn't this come in handy?

Wow, I had never heard of that one. Do you know where it was referenced?
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Postby ruotsher on Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:38 am

:mrgreen:
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:52 pm

:sheep:

Say Candy, I think I found a place where a lot of these books were listed and it tells whether you can find them or if they are missing.

Will get back to it and check that one out. I hope I kept the website in my research file.
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Postby Lookfortruth on Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:54 pm

Roma, check our study....it may be what I found already. :mrgreen:
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Postby hoshianna on Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:12 am

Lookfortruth wrote:
DALLAS wrote:There was also a book of The Wars of the Lord that was quoted in the old testament. Wouldn't this come in handy?

Wow, I had never heard of that one. Do you know where it was referenced?
Num 21:13-15 RV From thence they journeyed, and pitched on the other side of Arnon, which is in the wilderness, that cometh out of the border of the Amorites: for Arnon is the border of Moab, between Moab and the Amorites. (14) Wherefore it is said in the book of the Wars of the LORD, Vaheb in Suphah, And the valleys of Arnon, (15) And the slope of the valleys That inclineth toward the dwelling of Ar, And leaneth upon the border of Moab.
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Postby Butterfly on Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:19 am

RomaLynnStar,

Can you please tell me where the watchers are mentioned in the book of Daniel? I have also wondered why the book of Enoch is not included in our bible when mentioned in Jude. My understanding from what Holly said is that what we have is not actually thought to have been written by Enoch. What do you think about this?

Love in Christ,

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Postby Lookfortruth on Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:29 am

Thanks hoshianna!
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:43 pm

Sorry Butterfly I have not been in this one for a few days. Let me go out and get my study notes and post the times it is mentioned. It was part of the dream of the King of Babylon which Daniel interpreted. It is my opinion that these angels were set to watch and help man. Therefore called the watchers. But they sinned. And we know have precedence that angels can sin, from our first encounter with Satan who was an angel. But this sin must have been something different, because it says in Jude and 2 Peter, that these angels were locked away until judgement day. The book of Enoch says there were 200 that conspired to do this.
2 Peter 4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.

This is confirmed in the Book of Enoch 1, this is the book found in the canon of the Ethioptic Church. Now I know this church like the RCC, has fallen into many errors, as have all of the Protestant churches as far as I can tell. But the reason we have the Bible is that the RCC kept the manuscripts together for many years, and it has been confirmed now with other findings that they are accurate for the most part.

So it does not mean that just because of the errors of the RCC we should not accept the Bible nor should it mean that we should reject Enoch just because the Ethioptic Chrisitan church kept it in their canon.

So what we have to know is that even through all the years that the RCC was doing wrong things, God still preserved His holy word until the time that some priests came out of darkness to translate the wonderful word of God for all of us.
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Postby thecause on Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:03 pm

RomaLynnStar wrote::sheep:
Thanks for all the follow up to my post. If you have not read the book of enoch, it is not a bad thing to do. Of course we are not certain that it is exactly as the early church had it, but I am sure that they had it. Also I remember years ago when I was searching where demons really came from and how they interacted with humans, I prayed and asked the Lord to help me understand. Anyway according to some demons are the fallen angels, but according to Enoch, the demons are the offspring and fallen angels and women. As God could not have their spirits return to him, as they were not meant to be, they were left to roam the earth until the end. I know I still do not have all of the answers but sure makes sense to me. Enoch also says that the fallen angels taught men to war and all sorts of things. Which makes me think that if as in the days of Noah there is a return why so much knowledge has come about in the past 100 years. Satan's intent was to delude the offspring of man so that the savior would not be born, and Noah was perfect in his genealogy. Paul also warned us to have our covering because of the angels, and he also says the church will judge the angels. Just some other things for thought. I believe UFOs are all about the return and cloning and all of that has something to do with it. And cultures have their stories of these giants and great heroes of renown. Satan has not stopped planning to overthrow God's throne and he intends to use mankind to help him for sure. Prayerfully and in His Name. Jesus Christ.


RomaLynnStar, you sure pack a punch, don't you? It would have taken me three pages to say and explain everything you've said here.
1 Book of Enoch> essential for an understanding of 2 Peter 2 and the book of Jude; that is if you want detailed info about Genesis 6:14, the sons of God, and their offspring.

2 Book of Enoch> also good if you want some detail on Epheisans 6:12 and if you are serious about spiritual warfare.

3 Book of Enoch> good if you want to know how mankind came up with all sorts of things, even how to murder a baby in the womb.

4 Book of Enoch> accepted by the apostles as sacred writing, has visions about Jesus and prophecy. Some believe it was once considered Sacred Scripture and should be in the Bible.

5 Genesis 6:14 interesting how right after the sons of God went in unto the daughters of men, we have God expressing His disgust of having made man and wanting to destroy everything on earth except for Noah and his family and two of every creature so a new world could begin. What was happening in the time of Noah? Why did Jesus compare the end times with the Days of Noah? Why not Soddom? Or some other time?

6 UFOs are something we should, as Christians, want to get to the bottom of, and not dismiss. These are very real. They are not man-made. I saw one. It was as big as a house and only about 25 feet away from me. It disappeared right before me eyes, but not before I got a real good look at it. Believe me, these things are not man-made. NO WAY. They could be vehicles used by fallen angel/human hybrid beings. We know angels can travel without vehicles, they can transcend space and time. So, why would they need a vehicle? I think the answer is that these are the offspring of fallen angels and mortal women, spoken of in Gen 6:1-4. I believe this is a phenomenon which will continue to become significant in the days ahead. We should not believe anything these beings have to say. When I post again, I will give some links to information for all those interested in finding out some things you would not be able to find out through regular means.

7 Lastly, anyone who knows of Chuck Missler, knows he is a true teacher of the Bible. He is teaching about the Genesis 6 nephilim as returning in the end times, as a fulfillment of the "Days of Noah" reference Jesus gave. You can read some articles he has on his church ministry website:

www.khouse.org/topical_bible_study/nephilim an excellent source of info on this subject.
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:07 pm

From Strong's Concordance and the Blue Letter Bible on the net:

watchers from daniel
1) waking, watchful, wakeful one, watcher, angel


Dan 4:13
I saw 01934 02370 in the visions 02376 of my head 07217 upon 05922 my bed 04903, and, behold 0431, a watcher 05894 and an holy one 06922 came down 05182 from 04481 heaven 08065;

Dan 4:17
This matter 06600 [is] by the decree 01510 of the watchers 05894, and the demand 07595 by the word 03983 of the holy ones 06922: to 05705 the intent 01701 that the living 02417 may know 03046 that the most High 05943 ruleth 07990 in the kingdom 04437 of men 0606, and giveth 05415 it to whomsoever 04479 he will 06634 , and setteth up 06966 over 05922 it the basest 08215 of men 0606.

Dan 4:23
And whereas the king 04430 saw 02370 a watcher 05894 and an holy one 06922 coming down 05182 from 04481 heaven 08065, and saying 0560 , Hew 01414 00 the tree 0363 down 01414, and destroy 02255 it; yet 01297 leave 07662 the stump 06136 of the roots 08330 thereof in the earth 0772, even with a band 0613 of iron 06523 and brass 05174, in the tender grass 01883 of the field 01251; and let it be wet 06647 with the dew 02920 of heaven 08065, and [let] his portion 02508 [be] with 05974 the beasts 02423 of the field 01251, till 05705 seven 07655 times 05732 pass 02499 over 05922 him;


This is included in the dream of Nebuchadnezzar that Daniel interpreted.

Also Holly is correct and this is the mainstream teaching in most of the churches and seminaries.

However, we are not sure that the apostles actually wrote the gospels, and from my study it is noted that many books at that time took on the name of another, and it was common practice. I will have to check that one out more.

Fragments of Enoch 1 were found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. I have the english translation of the dead sea scrolls in my library. It was not all of the book, but enough to show that the book was around then.

Also how would we know, because a lot of things were passed down by the true followers of the Lord, and when God wanted it written, just like our Holy Bible, He by the power of His Holy Spirit, inspired it.

I have no problem believing that just like the prophets of old, God would inspire others, before the time of the new testament church. Anyway, it may be possible that some things have been mistranslated over the years, but that would also be true of the scriptures as well.

I will be scanning the information from the dead sea scrolls and share them with anyone who asks.

One reason also I think Augustine might have decided to come up with a different version of the sons of god and the daughters of men, in his writing the city of God,
is that he had belonged to a cult, which believed the Book of Enoch. Many cults have sprung up and taken things from God's word, that does not mean that the original writing was bad.
Last edited by RomaLynnStar on Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:16 pm

Thanks thecause:

I am aware of Chuck Missner and his webpage.

One thing I would like to point out is that before I had read any of these things, I believe the Lord led me to this. I had always heard the debate of if the sons of God, were the fallen angels, or the sons of Seth. Had determined, that God would have easily said, sons of Seth, daughters of Cain, if that was what was intended.

So many years ago, when praying about healing and demons, etc. I asked God to show me where the demons came in, etc. Well at first, since being in the medical field, I determined that perhaps they were viruses and bacteria, cause they sure make people sick, and when Peter's mother in law was sick with fever, Jesus cast out a demon.

So anyway that led me on the journey to discover this cause it sure did not make sense, that fallen angels and evil spirits, demons were the same thing. Cause again if God wanted demons and evil spirits, to be fallen angels.
He would have indicated this in His word. Fallen angels, not evil spirits, demons.

Needless to say, because Jude mentioned the Book of Enoch and also Peter referred to the ones that sinned being chained, I also wondered why all of the fallen angels and Satan were not chained then. Also as you said, Ephesians and our spiritual warfare became much clearer.

Another scripture that jumped out at me was about the woman having power on her head, in 1 Corinithians. What did this mean??? Because of the angels?????

So as I continued in my study, I found many scriptures which led me to believe that there is more going on than we in the church think.

The spiritual battle we are in is much more involved than we know at this point, but I do believe just as he told Daniel some things are coming to light in the end more and more.

It is something that if we are truly seeking truth of, our Lord by His Holy Spirit will show us, and it will be proven throughout the word of God.
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Postby Salty Skipper on Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:21 pm

Philippians 4

8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.
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Postby thecause on Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:42 pm

ruotsher wrote:Who do you suppose is mingling with the seed of men, in Daniel?

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Origen tried to warn the church that fallen angels had infiltrated the church to change and censor the Bible. Their purpose was of course to destroy any evidence of the sin of the fallen angels of leaving their proper habitation and coming down to take wives of the sons of men.

Origen was silenced and so was any document that informed believers of the sin of the angels. That main document was the Book of Enoch. During the Council of Nicea all texts that referred to the Book of Enoch or quoted from it were subject to automatic censor. Even the books of Jude, and 1st and 2nd Peter came into question because they quoted from the Book of Enoch.

The book of Jubilees and Jasher also talk of the Watchers...and their fall.


I'm so glad you all are talking about this. I've tried discussing this on another forum, but sadly, some Christians are very immature in knowledge and wisdom and have a very cursory understanding of Scripture. This particular subject matter is a "hard saying, who can hear it?" But I have been studying it. I like that "Ruotsher" brings up Origen here. I love studying the writings of the early church fathers, but I hadn't read that particular piece. Where would I find it?

Daniel 2:43 is intriguing, and everyone seems to skip over this (the eschatolgists, I mean) to get to the actual building material and the nations represented and to discuss the revived Roman Empire. They skip right over that little word "they". And "they" shall mingle themselves with the seed of men. Obviously "they" are something different from mankind. Otherwise, there would be no distinction made. I believe "they" are either fallen angels (as in Gen 6, sons of God), or "they" are the hybrid races that are visiting earth in the UFOs. Ever hear an interview with someone who claimed to be abducted by a spaceship? I used to think those folks were one brick short of a load, or they were simply attention seekers.

Since I've begun studying this subject (ever since I discovered the Books of Enoch about a year ago), I've changed my tune. Think of it. These abductees usually always speak of medical experimentation they underwent, especially about "aliens" taking their "seed" as in ovum and sperm. I think there may be something significant in that. What if these hybrid races will be the enforcers in the antichrist's government? What if the antichrist is a hybrid himself? Check Gen 3:15 again. Seed of woman, and seed of serpent. Dual prophecy? Messiah and anti-messiah?
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Postby thecause on Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:04 pm

RomaLynnStar,
Seems we've been taken on a similar journey. Here is what I've found out about the "because of the angels" warning of Paul's about why women should wear a head covering when they pray. And, boy am I guilty of this. I should do that, not because I fully understand it, but because the Word says women should do this when praying or prophesying.

Here's what may be the reason: an ancient Rabbi teaching was that the reason the sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 "saw the daughters of Adam that they were fair" is that the hair of the women attracted them. The women's hair was what caught the lustful attention of the fallen angels (being fallen, and therefore prey to every sin as humans are who are without Christ and the Holy Spiirit). When I found that out in my studies, I immediately remembered that Scripture which always seemed so odd. Paul gives no explanation, and it is not mentioned anywhere else. Maybe it was so widely known at that time that fallen angels lust after women because of their hair, that Paul didn't feel any explanation was necessary. But then, it is the Word of God, so why wouldn't God give us a fuller explanation? I don't know. All I know is that after over 31 years of knowing Jesus, I think I may finally have an answer to that question. It satisfies me, anyway. This may also be a good thing to keep in mind when doing spiritual battle. How weird when you think of it that angels would be so taken with something like hair. I don't know that short hair would do it for them, I imagine it is long, flowing hair. :grin:
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Postby Salty Skipper on Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:17 pm

Rabbit hole alert. Anytime we start spending more time focusing on the origin of demons and on scriptures left out of the Bible moreso than on what is actually in there, it's not a good thing.

http://fulfilledprophecy.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=27513
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